March is a beacon of celebration for the formidable women who've blazed trails and shattered ceilings, and who better to share their experiences than ReEmployAbility CEO Debra Livingston and Thought Leader Dr. Claire Muselman? Their tales of triumph are not just inspiring; they're a testament to the unwavering strength of women everywhere.
Capping off our homage to women's contributions, we switch gears with a lively trivia session, spotlighting achievements from the scientific breakthroughs of Marie Curie to the defiant courage of Rosa Parks. This conversation is an intricate tapestry of past, present, and future, woven with the threads of resilience, empowerment, and hope for women's enduring legacy.
March is a beacon of celebration for the formidable women who've blazed trails and shattered ceilings, and who better to share their experiences than ReEmployAbility CEO Debra Livingston and Thought Leader Dr. Claire Muselman? Their tales of triumph are not just inspiring; they're a testament to the unwavering strength of women everywhere.
Capping off our homage to women's contributions, we switch gears with a lively trivia session, spotlighting achievements from the scientific breakthroughs of Marie Curie to the defiant courage of Rosa Parks. This conversation is an intricate tapestry of past, present, and future, woven with the threads of resilience, empowerment, and hope for women's enduring legacy.
Perspective. Perspective is spelled P-E-R-S-P-E-C-T-I-V-E. Perspective the 30,000 foot new Perspective put on someone else's shoes. Perspective can also refer to the state of existing in space or one's view of the world. Perspective R-E-A audio R-E-A audio R-E-A audio.
Speaker 2:If you gave me a choice of vacationing on the beach or at a Civil War battlefield, I'd choose the battlefield. Strange, I know, but I'm totally a history nerd. It's like I look at historical people in places like some people look at movie stars or great musicians. There's something fascinating to me about things that have actually happened in the past and how cyclical it all seems to be. But history isn't necessarily as cut and dry as most people think.
Speaker 2:History is up to interpretation because it's written as seen through the filter of the person that's telling the story, and for most of human history, that story has been written by men. Unlike what I was taught in school 40 or so years ago, men didn't always drive the narrative of our world. Women played significant roles, which is why it's so important to look at a history from this perspective. It's Woman's History Month, so I spoke with three women of influence Deb Livingston, the CEO and founder of this company, reemployability. The incredibly smart and inspiring Dr Claire Musselman. And someone whose influence in the world can't be denied because she seems to have all the answers Amazon's Alexa. Happy Woman's History Month.
Speaker 1:Woman's History Month is a yearly celebration that honors the influence of women on events in history and society. It highlights the stories and experiences of women from all walks of life, highlighting their achievements and contributions to history and contemporary society. Deb.
Speaker 2:Livingston is the founder and CEO of Reemployability, and what better way to kick off season four of REA Audio than to talk to our CEO, deb. Thanks for joining us again on REA Audio. I know you've been a guest before.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks, todd. Now I love being here. Thank you, appreciate it Reemployability.
Speaker 2:We're celebrating our 20-year anniversary this year. Congratulations, deb, that's quite a milestone to achieve In terms of a woman-owned business. Tell us a little bit about what it was like 20 years ago and what were the barriers to entry into this environment for a woman. Compared to now, have there been positive changes? What sort of obstacles did you have to face?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. I mean, when I think back 20 years, or even when I started my career 20 years ago, I walked into that office at NETNAC property and casualty and it was dominated by men. I mean, most adjusters were men. There were probably more women adjusters in the work space than there were in the liability space, but it was predominantly male and leadership was predominantly male. So I think if you fast forward now, you see women in many more leadership roles and in executive level type decision making, which is really, really great. I think that there's still a long way to go. When I think about my experiences at RIMS, National RIMS, the Large Insurance Conference, when you look out among that exhibit hall or wherever you're walking around, it's still a sea of suits. But it's great to see that we've come a long way but still have a long way to go.
Speaker 2:So there's been a lot of women that have kind of paved the way, not only in this industry but really in this country and in the world right, and that's why we celebrate Women's History Month. Who is your favorite American woman in history?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So this is such a tough question because, for one reason, I'm not really good at history that's on Google yeah, never really have been. So that makes it difficult and challenging, and women are great for different reasons, right. So I did a little bit of research and a little bit of thinking about this, and I tend to do that during Women's Month especially, and so first I go back to someone who's an example of devoting their life to helping others, and that's Mother Teresa, and so I know that sounds really altruistic, probably, but nobody teaches us better than she did by example of how the simplest things can make the greatest amount of impact, and I think there's been so many times in my life where I felt like I have to do this big thing, and when I'm overwhelmed by that, I'm reminded that she said just one small thing, and so I think she's one of them for sure.
Speaker 3:A more recent woman that I would say that I really admire is Sarah Blakely, and not just because she's an FSU grad, but that is a big reason. She's also a Florida girl, so that doesn't hurt either, but she just completely embodies an entrepreneurial spirit. I mean she was selling, I think, copy, office materials, office supplies and the hot Florida Sun and wanted to figure out a way to be able to wear pants and have that smooth look, and she cut the toes off of her pantyhose and that's how Spank started. And she got a lot of no's before she got that first big yes. So she just embodies that leadership and resilience, and now philanthropy, because she's giving back to young women and helping them become entrepreneurs.
Speaker 3:So she would be another one that I would say that I look up to and look after and really, really admire. And then, from a woman who's paved the way, I have to go to Sandra Day O'Connor as the first woman to the Supreme Court in a field that was dominated by men, and now we've had four women since her now three actually serving on the bench. And so how great is that that now in history there actually could be a time where it's all women potentially on the Supreme Court? So she would be another one. So they would probably be my top three.
Speaker 2:That's a great diverse list. I love asking that question because you never know what you're going to get, and that first one really didn't surprise me, knowing you. But what a diverse list. That was really awesome. So one of the things that the National Women's History Alliance they put a theme together every year for Women's History Month and this year's theme is women who advocate for equity, diversity and inclusion All things that I think both men and women should be striving for. But is there anything of those three themes that you think needs the most work in today's world?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. I think what needs the most work is diversity of thought, and so I think that might surprise people, because when they hear equity, inclusion and diversity, that's probably not the first thing they think of. But especially as a leader and a business owner, you want diversity of thought. That's crucial because you need different perspectives, different ideas, different approaches to solving problems, especially in that decision-making process. So I think of the fact that if I wasn't intentional about having different voices on my team, that would really not get us where we are today. So we have to include, as women, we have to include men and people from different cultural backgrounds, different ages, and then I think, once you have that diversity of thought, the equity and the inclusion is inevitable. It just comes.
Speaker 2:Do you have any strategies that you utilize to make sure that you are continuing to stay open-minded and open to those thoughts?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, and I think the best strategy is just to get ideas from other people. I couldn't emphasize that more, even just as a business owner, that you recognizing that you're not going to have all the answers and you can't do it all on your own, so leaning on those people that are experts in their fields and even when it comes to our service and workers' compensation I don't know all of those statutes in every single state as well as somebody who is in that state, who is working and handling that state on a regular basis so I lean on my partners and colleagues throughout the United States to help us to make the right choices and the right decisions.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 2:And here's to another 20 years for re-employability. Congratulations.
Speaker 3:Yes, thanks, glad you're here along for the ride.
Speaker 2:Women's History Month, we are speaking again with Dr Claire Musselman. And Dr Claire, we've been so fortunate to have you on REA Audio many times before. You are a behavioral scientist, a keynote speaker, professor, author, leadership coach, newly married right, you're a mom. Like, how do you get all this stuff done?
Speaker 4:Alignment I joke with. I teach a lot on leadership and professional development and personal development and you can have it all. You just have to be in alignment and set boundaries about what alignment is. So my goal in life is to make good things happen for people. I do that in the workers' compensation space, I do that in my volunteer work, I do that with my students. Everything ends up being in alignment and they all tend to fall into place with one another. So if I'm talking about something self-leadership-wise in class, I might turn that into an article or a keynote presentation. A lot of the behavioral scientific work that we've been doing here at Drake has stemmed from a lot of the leadership components that we use to build the master of science and leadership program here at Drake, and so it's just kind of all fallen into place. So my whole thing is, if you can be in alignment with your higher purpose and your vision in life, it kind of just works itself out.
Speaker 2:Anytime we speak together, I always want to go first because I don't want to have to follow you. Your message is so inspiring and I know that a little bit of your story lends to the way you present and how you kind of got involved in all the things that you do. And we're kind of talking we're totally talking about Women's History Month and people's perspectives on it, and I thought you would be a super perfect person to talk about it. So, if you don't mind, just kind of tell us a little bit about, maybe, your little backstory, how it relates to Women's History Month and what struggles you may have found getting to where you are being a woman.
Speaker 4:Sure. So I have really lucked out? Actually, I have not lucked out. I have been very strategic and who I have chosen to spend my energy around. Let's be very frank. We always do this. We do this as women and we say, well, I'm so lucky.
Speaker 4:No, I've worked my ass off and I have worked hard for this, and I've surrounded myself with people who helped me see my strengths as great opportunities and have taught me how to find other people that can help with my weaknesses, and I think that's something that we tend to. Should we focus on our weaknesses? Do we focus on our strengths? What does that look like? I've also had really good leaders and mentors. I actually just posted one today where I talked about how Jay Gates when I was actually I worked at Fudgewick. I was at the TPA there for quite a few years and I got to work under Jay Gates and he taught me so much about leadership. He came up as a Nebraska football player under Tom Osborne, and when you start to look at like the different leaders that have had scope and depth with their influence, that's where you start to see some real power. I've also well, not every organization I've worked for has cared about my development plans or anything like that.
Speaker 4:I have done a very nice job of seeking out people to help amplify my voice. The first person I ever talked to about what a personal brand was was Mark Pew, over a decade ago, and Mark took me under his wing and said this is how you're going to develop your personal brand, this is how it falls into alignment and this fall at Drake, I will. We have our new course. That's all about personal branding, and I laughed because a decade ago, somebody else introduced me to that. So a lot of this ends up coming down to where can you find your most confidence?
Speaker 4:And confidence is built through behavioral action. So if you don't have that yourself, find people that will push you out into that space, because a lot of times people see something different in you than they would have before. But I have really done a nice job of amplifying my voice through other people who have seen things that I might not have already seen, and so now I get to use my voice and do that for others. So this month, on workerscompensationcom again being supported by amazing leaders Frank Ferrari, who is our media director, and Bob Bennett, who is our CEO of workerscompensationcom I get to highlight 31 women this month and we are profiling each of them. We're excited to have Deb's profile come back, but we are able to then amplify other females in the industry, all because somebody empowered me to feel like I could go do that.
Speaker 2:Did you, growing up, did you have any particular women that you looked up to that kind of guided you and inspired you to really, you know, take those chances and work your butt off to get to where you are?
Speaker 4:Yeah, actually, my cheerleading coach was one of the people that has been an unbelievably instrumental in my life and I should probably go tell her that. So I will do that and I encourage everyone when we ask these questions of each other, like who's been an influence to you? I was watching Adele respond to this, actually, on a video clip on LinkedIn where she talked about a specific teacher. So I'm going to go back to Mrs Bolt. Her name is Kimberly Bolt. She is at Lin-Mar High School over in Marion Iowa. I know she's there. I know she's pretty high up now. I think she might be the principal or superintendent. She's doing something amazing.
Speaker 4:But she was not only my cheerleading coach. She employed me to be a babysitter for her son. I also got to work for her Mary Kay business. She helped me realize that you don't have to do one job. You can have multiple things that you're passionate about and then you can generate revenue for those things and the boundaries that we believe our life has to be lived in. Who says, who says that? Who tells you that? Whose life are you living for? Are you living for expectations of your parents? Are you living for expectations of your grandparents? Are you living because it's what you think you should do. Who tells you that? And at the end of the night, were you happy today? Did you find happiness or joy?
Speaker 4:And I think a lot of us have a hard time of breaking out of these molds, whether they're put on us by family or society or media. I was watching something on PBS because I'm a huge nerd. I tell everyone it. I'm not only a nerd and work comp, I'm an early leadership world. I'm a nerd in the academic world. But I was watching PBS talking about, like what a stereotypical family is and the modern husband, wife, two kids, one boy, one girl, you name it is like be far minimum of the norm. But you would not know that, based upon societal Implications and they talked about how, even during the time period, the Brady bunch was much more like a normal family Then what we've ever thought of. And so when I started to think about this okay, where does where? What is family? What does that look like? Where does society tell you this is what your life's supposed to look like. I don't care anymore.
Speaker 4:And so when I look back into who's had influence over that, I go back to Mrs Bolts showing me you want a career doing this. You want to be a teacher? You can do that. You can be an entrepreneur. You can be a leader in this. You can be a leader in that. You can build your own business. You can also make an impact in people's lives and I loved it.
Speaker 4:She got me really into science and I'm pumped because I'm gonna take some science classes again this fall and go back to school again, because I am a glutton for punishment and also show me that if everything is possible, you just have to want to go do it, and there's so much beauty and power behind that.
Speaker 4:But she also being able to show me all those different facets that we think of, a teacher is a teacher and we put them in that box and when we're children, if we ever see them out in a grocery store, we see them wherever we're like wait, no, you're the teacher You're supposed to be in the classroom. She showed me how you can tentacle your life into all these different directions for a more full and robust life. That makes you feel whole and fulfilled and that is something that I have taken with me Throughout I don't know 20 some years now post being with her. But she also taught me what it was to be a leader when I was younger and then I got to have Jay when I entered the workforce and it's been there's some really great people.
Speaker 2:So every year, the National Women's History Alliance sets a theme for Women's History Month. This year's theme is equity, diversity and inclusion three very important things, not only with regards to women's history, but with a people as a whole. Right, but of those three, as it relates to women's history months, do you feel like there's one of those particular principles that need better attention?
Speaker 4:So I'm gonna go to the whole equity piece right now. So, as someone who is a female faculty member at a university, recently I was alerted to the discrepancy and pay of male, female faculty members to female faculty members, which super disheartening it's 2024 and also a little disappointed in myself for just not being educated on that subject. Like I teach people this on a regular basis, I teach people to share their salaries because that is why I believe we have one of the reasons I think we have a pay gap that exists. But that's where I start to look at like women are less likely to go negotiate a salary, women are less likely to ask, and A lot of times I've heard from leaders, have heard from companies, have heard from HR professionals that say, well, all you have to do is ask. So what are we doing to help showcase that or to bring that up? Is it? Should it be instilled by our parents? Should it be instilled by our teachers? Should it be instilled by society? Where do we start to change that narrative, to get that equity piece, if, truly, all we need to do is ask? Okay, so let's say we start asking well, how do we right size what currently exists and who's willing to make that that jump?
Speaker 4:One of the things that I have done as a leader before was to right size some female leaders that worked for me salaries. Before I left that Organization I made sure they were all taking care of to where they should have been. So do we have people that have power right now that are able to do that and people that are willing to go fight for that? There have been two other instances in my career where I've worked with women who have been the only manager in a group of all male Directors and when you start to look at, okay, well, why? Why the difference helped them go advocate for themselves and then they get promoted, and so it's kind of like, alright, what exists, what's out there. And you know, I'm gonna quote the Barbie movie on this, where Ryan Gosling makes the quote as there, makes the comment as Ken, where he said, oh, I thought the patriarchy was still out in existence, and the gentleman he's talking to in this organization says, oh, it's still there. We're this much. We are just much better at hiding it. Mmm-hmm, yeah, absolutely, that's exactly correct. Yeah, so it's kind of like getting people to open up their minds and see that this stuff is very prevalent.
Speaker 4:I wrote an article for bloom back in 2021, called that's cute sweetheart, about some of my experiences being one of the only females at certain tables and what was said to me, what behavioral actions were placed, and I went back and shared it with a couple of my female students this past week and I'm just Shocked at how much stuff is still the same, no matter how much we try. But I'm not gonna keep trying because I want tomorrow to be better for my daughter and my students and I also do not want to discredit any of the women who have come before us to give us this ability to be here right now. It is really hard for me when I'm working with people who I know think I'm a second-class citizen Just because I'm a woman and they aren't afraid to tell me that. So that's been Interesting in this past probably six months.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's. That's actually a good transition into my next question. So sure, oh, has the role of women changed in workers compensation since you've been active in it, and have you seen any any improvements?
Speaker 4:So I do think we have improved in this space. I also think that there still has to be a lot more behavioral action. There is so much lip service that goes on, but people putting their money where their mouth is. One of the other things that I have found just phenomenal is the inability of women to want to help women, where, when you start to look back at this historical analysis of data that has existed back they think we started researching this back in the early 90s and I have a couple of organizational behavior textbooks that also reference this that women are less likely to help one another. So when we want to say, okay, you know patriarchy, blah, blah, blah, blah, this is what's happening. We're also holding each other down. It's like that crab effect where if you're trying to crawl out of the pot, I don't want to help you. You can't get out of the pot if I can't, we should be boosting each other up.
Speaker 4:This is one of those times where it's statistically there, where they showcase, like HR professionals specifically, that when there's a photograph of a woman, or if it's between a white woman or a black man or a you know, you start looking at all of these different demographic factors that play into one another, whether they are all of similar quality, the similar backgrounds, if we name it, women are less likely to choose the woman, and I think that it's just fascinating that this is something that is so ingrained with us, and until we want to wake up and realize that we all have a bias towards this, we have a bias towards one another. How do you check that? And be like wait, wait, wait. Why do I feel this way? What would it hurt? There is plenty of room for all of us to succeed, and it's time that we started taking behavioral action to showcase that again.
Speaker 4:That's where confidence is built, so why not continue to bring people along? I mean, what's the worst that would happen in that we all get to thrive? I mean, I'm a big growth mindset person, so there's plenty of awesome to go around here. So why not start helping one another? And then we can showcase our daughters that it's not the mean girl stuff, but actually, what about the cool girl, the good girls that actually want to show up and help one another? Because RBG is one of my favorites and she did everything with such ethical integrity and class. Why aren't we doing that for one another? Easy place to start.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for being on with us and giving us your perspective. It's always such a pleasure to speak with you and again to take some of your time away from your busy schedule just to chat with us. So I hope everything's going well for you and we look forward to talking to you again soon.
Speaker 4:Sounds great. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Let's play Women's History Month trivia. I asked Deb and Claire the same three questions about women and women's history. Play along and we'll see how you do. New Zealand was the world's first nation to pass what suffrage related measure.
Speaker 3:Okay, so I already told you I'm not good at history, right.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 3:Okay, but suffrage makes me think of voting.
Speaker 4:Maybe it's voting Back in 1893. 1893. Okay, wait, it was women's suffrage. Yes, okay, so they had to have passed a Women's Suffrage Act.
Speaker 2:What organization? Founded by Juliette Gordon-Lowe in 1912, had almost 3 million members across all age groups and raises over $750 million between January and March each year with their famous fundraising efforts.
Speaker 3:Yes, so this one I know, because not only was I a Girl Scout, but my daughter was a Girl Scout, so that would be the Girl Scout organization.
Speaker 4:That's the Girl Scout Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Where are your cookies yet?
Speaker 4:Actually, their CEO here, or their executive director here in the Des Moines area, is Beth Sheldon and she is phenomenal and I love everything that they have done. They actually have some bring your baby to the workplace on a regular basis for new moms and they do some really, really cool stuff. That's very forward thinking.
Speaker 2:Amazon. You're familiar with that little company, Amazon. They have this digital assistant named Alexa. How did they name Alexa? Do you know how they came up with that name Alexa?
Speaker 3:So I have no clue, but I'm betting that you do, Todd, because I know you talk to Alexa quite a bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, quite a bit. I think I talked to Alexa in my sleep. Oh, what do you think?
Speaker 4:Okay, so I'm going to gas and totally off of. It's got to be an employee's name, somebody's employee name.
Speaker 2:Okay, well, how'd you do? Here are the answers In 1893, New Zealand became the world's first nation to give women the right to vote. Question number two Juliet Gordon Lowe founded the Girl Scouts in 1912. And finally, what's the story behind the name Alexa, Do you know? Well, let's ask the source.
Speaker 1:The name has both an ancient and modern backstory. It was inspired by the library of Alexandria, which held the knowledge of the ancient world. Also, the distinct sound of the name ensures I only hear requests when spoken to.
Speaker 2:So Alexa isn't a very good interviewee yet, so I asked her to tell us about some famous women in history. Maybe you learned something you didn't know.
Speaker 1:Maria Salomea Skodofska Curie, known simply as Marie Curie, was a Polish and naturalized French physicist and chemist who conducted pioneering research on radioactivity. She was the first woman to win a Nobel Prize, the first person to win a Nobel Prize twice and the only person to win a Nobel Prize in two scientific fields. Rosa Louise Macaulay Parks was an American activist in the civil rights movement, best known for her pivotal role in the Montgomery bus boycott. The United States Congress has honored her as the first lady of civil rights and the mother of the freedom movement. Parks became an NAACP activist in 1943, participating in several high profile civil rights campaigns.
Speaker 2:Thank you, alexa. So how does this all tie back to workers' compensation? Well over 30% of reemployability's active claims are women. When a woman gets hurt at work, it can affect their family situation much, much differently than a man. Healthsystemscom says women workers were more adversely affected by the pandemic and its subsequent recession than were men, which is likely to have an impact on the labor force and workers' compensation for some time to come. They say that women earn less than men for the same work, which is stuff we already know. Women without a bachelor's degree make 78 cents for every dollar of their male counterparts, and women with a bachelor's degree make even less, earning only 74 cents for every dollar a man makes for similar work. Lower earnings provide less incentive for women to stay in the workforce, especially with competing priorities such as child and elder care.
Speaker 2:The psychological issues associated with injury, unemployment and caregiving responsibilities can cause mental health conditions or lead to dependence on problematic medications. So if you're a professional in the workers' comp world, it's important to try to see injury from the workers' perspective. We deal with human beings and it's important to consider all the factors that may contribute to how a person reacts and recovers from an injury. It's all about perspective. Thanks for listening to REA Audio. We're going to try to come up with a new episode just about every two weeks, with a focus on perspective. Please make sure to follow us on Spotify or Apple Podcast or Stitcher or wherever you get your podcast. We do appreciate you. Have a great rest of your week.