ReAudio: ReAssess Your Workers Comp Toolbox
ReInvent your Workers' Comp Perspective!
Things change. In fact, that’s one of the most sure things in life. Haven’t we learned that these past few years? ReAudio has changed too. Starting as a way to provide tools and value to our partners in the Workers' Compensation Industry, we have changed into a human interest podcast, primarily interviewing people who have overcome adversity to achieve success, however, that’s defined by them. Because change is a permanent reality, ReAudio is hoping to help you see our industry a little differently. Through storytelling and exploring different perspectives, Season 4 will guide you to ReImagine your Workers' Comp ReAlity.
Winner of the BLOOM Excellence Awards 2023 Podcast of the Year
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ReAudio: ReAssess Your Workers Comp Toolbox
Navigating Workers' Compensation: Resilience, Economic Trends, and AI Innovation
Explore how economic shifts and technological advancements are transforming the workers' compensation industry with Debra Livingston, founder and CEO of ReEmployAbility. We discuss cost containment strategies amid rising medical and wage inflation, the growing importance of return-to-work programs, and mentorship’s role in addressing the talent shortage.
This episode also tackles strategic planning during adversity, including lessons from Florida’s natural disasters and year-end settlement challenges. Plus, discover the potential of AI in the workplace and its impact on efficiency and workplace culture. Join us for insights on growth, resilience, and navigating the trends shaping 2025.
perspective. Perspective is spelled p e r s p e c t I v e perspective the 30 000 foot view perspective put on someone else's shoes. Perspective can also refer to the state of existing in space or one's view of the world. Perspective REA Audio.
Speaker 2:Reemployability. So how was your 2024? Did you get everything done that you wanted to? Did it meet your expectations and did you stick to your new year's resolution? Well, it seems like the years go by faster and faster and, before you know it, it's time to wrap up the past and plan for the future. We had an exciting year on REA Audio, diving into historical topics, personal stories of overcoming adversity and exploring life hacks to make you better at business and at home. So, to put a bow on 2024, we invited Deb Livingston, founder and CEO of Reemployability, to talk about trends that came up this past year in business and work comp. She also shares what she sees in her crystal ball for 2025.
Speaker 1:More than 40 percent of Americans make New Year's resolutions every year, but only 8 percent of us keep them.
Speaker 2:Deb, thank you. I love wrapping up the year with you on REA Audio and what's really fun is, you know, kind of looking back and look back in the last years and see where kind of the predictions were and everything. But so, all in all for 2024, like in the workers comp world, is it what you thought it was going to be? What happened in 2024? That kind of stood out to you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think it was. I think you know we had expected that economic growth would slow and because you know inflation and high interest rates and the job market was going to be challenging, and I think those things are all true. You know interest rates are starting to decline now and inflation remains persistent. So those things all impact workers' compensation and I think there were predictions last year about how medical and wage inflation would impact premiums and workers' compensation, and I think there were predictions last year about how medical and wage inflation would impact premiums and workers' compensation and I think those are similar things that are going to continue into 2025. I think we did see that come to fruition and we'll continue to see that in 2025.
Speaker 2:Well, from the perspective of somebody that maybe not is familiar with workers' compensation, just very, very basic. So when? If, for example, there is an economic downturn.
Speaker 3:How does that directly impact the workers' compensation world?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I'll answer that kind of on the flip side right.
Speaker 3:So when we are in a more business-friendly environment, like what we are anticipating for 2025, we definitely see more jobs. And when there are more jobs and people working, then people of course, get injured, which we don't like to see, but that happens and that's really what fuels part of our workers' confidence industry, especially as a service provider right. All of us service providers rely on the health of the economy for us to continue to grow and bloom, right. And then I actually read an article recently about 2025 that we actually might see more supply chain moves into the United States from other countries and if that happens, that's going to mean an increase in manufacturing jobs here. And as more workers join the workforce, we see an increase in frequency rates for claims. So that is what keeps our workers' compensation industry, I would say, chugging along and moving and maybe healthy.
Speaker 2:And when you say healthy. So if we look at, I always try to equate what we do to car insurance because I think most people can kind of understand right the way that works. So if we're looking at more jobs into this country, more manufacturing jobs, more of those types of jobs that may cause more claims because of injuries, right, how does that impact rates for all companies across the board? Does that increase rates if there's more people getting injured or does it decrease rates because there's more people in the economy, or does it decrease rates because there's more people in the economy that are getting workers' compensation insurance?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so there's a couple of things there. So I talked a little bit about medical inflation and wage inflation. Those things will cause premiums to increase Because, as you know, workers' compensation is based on payroll dollars. A lot of it is based on payroll dollars.
Speaker 3:So because of that, if wages increase, then automatically payroll your premiums are going to increase as a result of those wages increasing right, and then with medical inflation, companies are going to be looking at those dollars that are being spent right, so that's also going to impact the premiums as well. But as we have more workers in the economy, those cost containment strategies become that much more important. And with wage inflation and medical inflation it becomes more important to control costs. And so, because of that, all of those of us in the industry that are in the service provider industry, where we work part of the industry, where we actually provide a cost containment service, those services become more important. So, like a good return to work program would be really important to helping to contain costs, reduce medical, reduce litigation, those kinds of things.
Speaker 2:Makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 3:Right exactly?
Speaker 2:Were there any surprises that popped out at you this year, in 2024, in the workers' comp world?
Speaker 3:I don't think so, not really. I think one of the things I'm really enjoying seeing is, you know, there's been a shortage of talent in our industry and I've seen the pop up of more mentorship programs, like we have the Rise Professionals Group and we saw data emerge as well. So these are two really strong now mentorship programs and I'm seeing a lot of people go into those programs. That's been really nice to see to attract more people into our industry. I think that we'll continue to see talent acquisition be a challenge, and so the more we see companies investing in those mentorship type programs, the better it's going to be for the industry as a whole.
Speaker 2:Every time I talk to somebody new, whether it's a client, a risk manager, someone with a TPA or a carrier I always ask them how did you get involved? And I've never, ever met anybody who was like well, I graduated from X and X school and I decided to get into workers' compensation Like nobody. Everybody kind of falls into it. It would be kind of nice to see more aggressive recruitment by particular organizations right out of school into this industry. I mean, I know WorkConc College is a great resource that we have that here at Reemployability. A number of us have been able to take advantage of an associate's course.
Speaker 2:I've got three more to go. I just finished the risk manager one yesterday and it was great because it was a conversation. I just finished the risk manager one yesterday and it was great because it was a conversation. It was an interview and had a risk manager from California talk about what that role is and it was really interesting to me because those are our main focus from a client perspective on the sales end to really understand what they did on a daily basis. It's an exciting industry.
Speaker 3:It really is, and there's so much opportunity in so many different areas. Right, it's not just handling claims. Right, there's an area for finance and accounting and underwriting and social media, and I mean you name it.
Speaker 3:there's a position for it you know, in the insurance industry and I would say that I think as a whole the industry has done a better job of recruiting. I've seen really great programs come out of Gallagher Bassett and Summit Insurance as well. They both have what I'm familiar with are some type of internship programs for college students, and I think that's attracting new people into our industry. Out there that have more, you know, programs that are more of a coordinated, I guess you'd say right where they actually do recruiting, that we just don't know about. Yeah living in those circles.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm going to meet somebody next year, I'm sure that said, I got recruited right out of school to work here. Yeah, that would be, that would be great. Yeah, because I'm very glad that I kind of fell into this industry and that was, you know, the conversation that they had on that course that I that I just took. You know the risk manager was talking about, depending on who she reports to, is really dependent upon the focus, right? Is it finances at HR, and those are two very different roles that she has to walk into. And and there's a there's a, there's a creativity that comes along with being able to develop, to develop solutions that she has to do, which I love that part of it as well. So that was really, really good to see.
Speaker 2:So now you started as a adjuster back in the day and I know things have changed since then. When you came into this industry, were you surprised by anything? Obviously, you're still here, so you're pleasantly surprised in kind of how it worked. Can you talk a little bit about that history that you had in becoming an adjuster and working your way up in the industry, because I have a follow up question to that. But I want to kind of set the, set the foundation first.
Speaker 3:So I, as you know, I'm one of those people that also fell into the industry. Right, I, out of college, I actually worked in retail and got tired of the nine to five, not nine to five. I got tired of the hours and the weekend Beyond nine to five. I wanted a nine to five office job so badly, like anything to get out of, like standing on the floor at the Gap or 12 hour days, right. So so I kind of just stumbled into the industry. Edmont Insurance was looking for claims adjusters and I was fortunate enough to be a part of one of their their claims training programs. So that's how I got into it.
Speaker 3:Definitely, claims has changed. I can't even begin to scratch the surface on all those changes because I haven't been so far removed from it for so long. But I know with the introduction of AI, there's got to be some things, some efficiencies that have been brought into their role. It's a very administrative role, so I would imagine that many companies have done put things in place to help with that administrative function. I don't think we'll ever get away from the human touch.
Speaker 3:I think that that was one of the things I always loved about being an adjuster is the communication I had with injured workers. Obviously, one of the big things that changed back then was we met with injured workers face to face. That stopped existing a long time ago I don't even remember how far back, but I think that was kind of nice to be able to sit across the table with an injured worker and really get to know them, and so I think that we are putting more of an emphasis on that worker and the recovery of that worker and building a relationship with the worker. And you saw that probably through the work comp college courses that you took. There's a lot about the psychological behaviors of an injured worker and emotional intelligence and all of that that goes into play. So I think there's that more of an emphasis on that care for the person versus the transaction and I think that's seeing the industry move that way has really been great, yeah, and I'm sure's being the industry move that way has really been great.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I'm sure there was much more of an emphasis on that when you were doing adjusting right. How long were you in that role for?
Speaker 3:I was an adjuster maybe a total of about three or four years.
Speaker 2:Okay, so long enough to be in a situation where you understood trends year after year. So that kind of leads me to my question. So if I'm an adjuster listening now again understanding that technologies are different, processes are different, but the foundation and the core is really the same what were you doing now, this time of year, to prepare for next year or to wind things up for this year? Is there any words of wisdom you could give to someone?
Speaker 3:I mean. What I recall about this time in Europe is it was a heavy settlement time of year, like the holidays were always a time when injured workers were looking for ways to resolve their claims, to kind of move into next year with it being behind them and moving forward. So I think I would imagine that's not really changed much over the years. But that's what I specifically remember about the holidays a lot of negotiations of settlements and resolving cases, and that's a good thing.
Speaker 2:It is a good thing Right For you as the adjuster perspective right kind of start with a fresh slate next year as much as you possibly can? Absolutely yeah, for sure. So this year in re-employability was we all faced some adversity, not only here at work but outside right, and we're based in Florida, tampa, florida and we got hit with two back-to-back hurricanes and I know you were specifically impacted. Talk a little bit about the adversity and how you overcame what you had to overcome if you don't mind you.
Speaker 3:you mean through the storms.
Speaker 2:Yeah, through the storms and how it related personally into the office and how you. What were some of the things that you drew from to help you get?
Speaker 3:through that. Yeah well, first of all, anytime you go through an experience like that, you just never know how you're going to handle it right. I'm very fortunate that we have such an incredible team of people here at-employability that so much was taken care of from the standpoint of the office. But I mean, probably what people don't really realize is when you have a business that you run and you have a hundred lives that you're taking care of, everybody has a need, right, Everybody's concerned. They're scared.
Speaker 3:One of the things we did was to immediately send people home to take care of their families, to work remote as they could, and, and I think that kind of helped to alleviate everybody's concerns about how am I going to get my household ready and those kind of things. But we, you know, at reemployability we have to touch so many lives. So we have injured workers at locations throughout the state of Florida, we have clients throughout the state of Florida, we have nonprofit partners throughout the state of Florida with all of those people and making sure that they know that they're taken care of. We're taking care of them and our clients are taking care of those injured workers that are participating in those areas where a hurricane might be hitting. So there's a lot of communication and coordination that goes with all of that and we really can never completely shut down because of that, because we need to be available to those injured workers if they need us For me, as you know, those injured workers if they need us For me, as you know, my house got four feet of water in it and so dealing with that devastation and all of the emotion that goes with losing pretty much your entire household was pretty rough.
Speaker 3:But what was the shining light out of all of that is the team here just took care of everything that they needed to take care of so that I could take care of what I had to pretty much at home. So, and I actually, in all that we went through, still feel so blessed because so many people had it so much worse than I have had, you know, through that whole ordeal.
Speaker 2:It's funny that you said my very. I didn't give you this question just so everybody knows that right. So in my notes here I put hurricanes, adversity. Sometimes we don't know how we're going to handle things until they actually happen. And I'm so glad that you said that, because that's really why I wanted to bring that up. And when you plan for things, people have to understand that it doesn't what Mike Tyson I think he said everybody makes a plan until they get punched in the face, right, and that's exactly what happened, right For sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and we're still dealing with the aftermath of everything from home and.
Speaker 3:Milton, because the city that we live in, the permitting process has been horrendous and so we still can't rebuild. It's just this whole clog, clog that we're in, you know, and we've heard the same from so many others. So it really does give you perspective on um what other people have gone through during hurricanes and you see this devastation on the news, but you don't really know firsthand until you go through it yourself yeah, yeah, till you actually walk down the street and see there's, there's my house, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So are there things that you did that you feel like? From your past experiences you know, either as a business owner or personally, that that helped you to get through that time, that time period?
Speaker 3:I think that OK. So you know, we've been in business 20 years. Actually, we just went into our 21st year of business.
Speaker 3:And so going through what we've been through in business for 20 years and I think probably the most challenging time was COVID, right? So I would say yes, I mean going through something like a COVID where the whole world basically shut down overnight and we had to completely pivot the way we did business so that we can continue to be in business, it does help you for a disaster. You learn a lot through those experiences. You learn about endurance, you learn about how you need to just shift and sometimes you have to go with the flow. You know, sometimes you just got to pull yourself up from your bootstraps and just forge forward.
Speaker 3:You know, flight fright or freeze? Yeah, flight or freeze. So I'm not a freeze person, I'm definitely a flight person. I just kind of run through, and so that's kind of been a good thing for me. I don't stay still during a crisis, right.
Speaker 2:So we're running into a new year 2025, right, and not necessarily from a workers' comp perspective or even an insurance perspective, but if you can just put your business owner glasses on right, there's a lot of changes coming up in next year. I think and you know, not necessarily even to get political, but I think it's pretty obvious there's a lot of changes coming up in our economy for next year and one of the things I learned was that you learn about how the economy is going by talking to other business owners across the country, not by listening or watching TV. Right, the news isn't necessarily going to give you what's actually happening boots on the ground. What are you seeing boots on the ground as a business owner here in Florida, and how do you think that translates into the rest of the country?
Speaker 3:I think that the elimination of some regulation for business is going to help business, especially small business, and I would consider us still relatively small. I think that helps people create businesses and jobs. I was listening to a podcast recently and it was a capital investment firm and he was talking about how they weren't really looking at a lot of investments over the last four years, doing big investments and our industry and where comp is. There's been a lot of. There's a lot of acquisitions and sales and movement of companies in our industry and I think we might see that happening again because I think, as as regulations start to lift and the economy gets a little bit stronger and the business environment improves, I think we'll start to see a little bit more of that happening. You know more money flowing into companies and maybe we'll see a little bit more of that happening more money flowing into companies and maybe we'll see a little bit more movement of that. So that was kind of an interesting perspective.
Speaker 3:I think we're going to see a lot more with AI. I think that's going to continue to be a hot topic for 2025. I mean, last year you saw, at all of the conferences there were sessions on AI. I think we're still going to see that. I don't think AI is going to replace the human capital, but I think we're going to definitely be using it to become more efficient. I mean, we even use it here to help us with things right, and we use it in our day-to-day lives without even realizing we're using it. We're using it on our map software. We're talking to Siri all the time, or Alexa, right that's all AI right, so I think we're still.
Speaker 3:We're going to see a lot of that as well.
Speaker 2:Does that? Does that scare you at all?
Speaker 3:No, not at all. I actually I find AI to be incredibly intriguing and I actually love using it to help me, whether it's to write something, to research things, you know. I find it to be like for me to sit down and maybe like maybe I'm working on a response to an email, right, something that might have taken me several hours to like think through and talk through. I can just put some bullet points together and say to AI hey, can you put this email together for me? And it pulls it together and after a while AI gets pretty smart and it starts to get your voice yeah, you know yeah so I I think it can help make us more efficient.
Speaker 2:Of course, I think we need to be careful yeah right yeah, I, I almost feel like, um, I almost feel like what assembly line workers felt like in the mid 80s, late 80s, when robots started doing you know the, the people that you know ford or chevy that were. You know the people at you know Ford or Chevy that were, you know putting the, and I know that you know to some extent there's, there's still that human touch, but most of it's done by robotics. Now and from a, I guess, a white collar position, I always felt like, well, that you know they're always going to need my brain to write emails or come up with creative copy or you know, have that and I'm almost I like to use it, but a lot of the times I'll look at I'll be like I don't like the fact that AI can just churn out an email for me.
Speaker 3:I know there is that feeling that you still want to use your brain, right, you don't want your brain to turn to mush.
Speaker 2:That's exactly it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you have to just be careful.
Speaker 2:Yeah right, you got to use it the right way. Yeah, for sure. So to wrap things up, what are you most proud of? What happened that makes you go like, yeah, you know what?
Speaker 3:2024 was okay. You know I'm proud of our culture here at Reemployability our people, we care about the human being. The human connection is a big thing and we are a human connection company and that interaction we have with the injured workers, our employees, really take that seriously and we have developed relationships, whether it's with them or the nonprofit partners that we do business with, our clients. That human connection is really important and I think in this past year we really emphasized that with some of the professional development programs we've offered to our employees and some of the ways that we've helped encourage that human interaction within our office.
Speaker 3:I mean as you know we're pretty much an in-office company which, by the way, 2025 will be the trend of coming back to office, and we're already seeing a lot of that in the news and companies are already saying, hey, people have to be back three, four days a week.
Speaker 3:We were kind of ahead of that curve. Because I've always felt that way and because we are what I call a human connection company, we've always had our people in-house and I think it definitely has made a significant difference in how we interact not just with each other, but with our clients and our external partners.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:So that's probably what I'm most proud of. We got top places to work again this year and we're hoping to get it again next year. Those things are really important to me. I've always wanted to create an environment for our employees that was better than any environment I've worked in, and so it's always striving to be a little bit better.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And just like anything else it's two steps forward, sometimes a half step back, then three steps forward, but that's okay. That's growth, right? I think one of the most profound graphs I ever saw. I always thought growth was a direct line up, and it's not.
Speaker 3:It's up, down, up down, but definitely overall re-employability trend upwards. No doubt You've been on our management team. We've experienced it right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Where we've had these dips. Of course, we have to reel things in. You know, we, like any other company, struggle with growth, exponential growth, you know, and I do think this was the year we harnessed it. This was the year that we really, you know, were able to hone in and get back to providing the really, really solid service that we were known for in the industry, and I'm really proud of that. That's a big thing this year.
Speaker 2:And that's why I brought that up, because anybody listening that might be in a situation where they feel, you know, like they're not achieving what they want to be achieving, understand that it's not a direct line-up. It's always a step up.
Speaker 3:Like, I feel like and you heard me probably say this at the company meeting last week it's taken this whole year for us to really like, see and feel the difference of all the things that we put in place, you know, over the course of the beginning of the year till now. So it's all kind of come to fruition. So it's patience and persistence and fortitude.
Speaker 2:There you go, there you go. That's 2025, right, deb? Is there anything else you want to add that maybe I left out?
Speaker 3:No, I don't think so. I'm looking forward to 2025. I think there's going to be some good things on the horizon next year and I'm excited for what's in store. Thank you, Thank you In 2025,.
Speaker 1:I wish you a fantastic January, a dazzling February, a peaceful March, an anxiety-free April, a sensational May and joy that lasts from June to November, followed by a joyful December.
Speaker 2:Well, that's it. 2024 is complete as far as REA Audio is concerned. We're going to take a bit of a break and come back with our fourth season in March. Next year will be a year of deep dives into the work comp world, where we'll talk to experts, influencers and policymakers to provide you with tools to be more informed and successful at what you do. Have a super happy holiday and a blessed new year. Thanks for listening to REA Audio. Please make sure to follow us on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or Stitcher or wherever you get your podcasts. We appreciate you. Have a great rest of your week. We'll see you next time.
