ReAudio: ReAssess Your Workers Comp Toolbox
ReAudio goes beyond policies and regulations to explore the real impact of workers’ compensation. We break down key industry trends, workplace injury data, and best practices while diving into the human side of recovery. Through expert conversations and powerful stories, we uncover the challenges, emotions, and perspectives that shape the experience for employees and employers alike.
Whether you’re an industry professional or just curious about the system behind workplace injuries, this podcast brings you the facts you need and the stories that matter—because workers’ comp isn’t just about processes, it’s about people.
The award-winning ReAudio podcast is presented by your partners at ReEmployAbility. Thanks for listening!
ReAudio: ReAssess Your Workers Comp Toolbox
Kindness, Leadership & Communication: Insights from Debbie Lundberg
Debbie Lundberg takes you on an inspiring journey of self-discovery, resilience, and the power of kindness. From overcoming perfectionism to embracing purposeful living, she shares how personal branding, emotional intelligence, and strong communication shape both our professional and personal lives.
In this episode, Debbie explores how modern communication bridges generational gaps, why intentional kindness is more important than ever, and how small, meaningful actions—like donating a kidney—can create lasting ripple effects. She reflects on lessons learned from hurricane devastation, the importance of active love in times of crisis, and the transformative impact of gratitude.
She also offers powerful strategies for having difficult conversations with both kindness and accountability, as well as the best way to provide meaningful support to others.
For more insights, connect with Debbie at debbie@debbielundberg.com and tune in to The Business of Life Masterclass Podcast.
How do you get better at what you do? Time management assistance.
Speaker 2:AI.
Speaker 1:Webinars Mentors. Open platforms like Coursera Live and virtual Live training.
Speaker 2:Live course Live training Live course, live training, live training, live training, live training, live training.
Speaker 1:Live training, live training, live training, live training, live training, live training, live training, focus, communication, regulation and direction. Rea Audio. So, debbie Lundberg, you've been on REA Audio. It was a long time ago that you joined us. Yes, and just kind of on a whim. I was talking to Deb Livingston, the owner and CEO of Reemployability, and your name came up and I thought, you know, there's a lot going on that Debbie and we can talk about, and so I'm so glad that it was like super quick. You know there's a lot going on that Debbie and we can talk about, and so I'm so glad that it was like super quick. You're here.
Speaker 1:What I love about your LinkedIn profile and this is a great way, I think, to kind of introduce what it is that you do for folks that are listening. I'm just going to read it. So it says embracing and encouraging lifelong kindness, growth, fun and ROI. As a two-time TEDx keynote speaker, author, performance coach, facilitator, eqi 2.0, 60-plus round-per-year golfer, living kidney donor and fully recovered perfectionist, that's a lot. So how do you unpack that? Tell us about what it is that you do.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks for asking. And what that is is a lot of people don't realize that LinkedIn doesn't have to only be your job title in that first part. So, as a lifelong learner, I fully admit that I took a class, because there's no reason not to. So, as LinkedIn evolves, I'll take courses and figure out what you know. What can I do to enhance and improve my profile? And I admit that there was a time when somebody used my profile as the sample, as the example of a really good, thorough profile, and he was writing a blog post. So I do pride myself in staying on top of it. Not that it's perfect, because I am a fully recovered perfectionist.
Speaker 2:So, to unpack it, the first part about embracing lifelong kindness all of that is what I call my personal tagline. If we have a glass of water together, a cup of tea, if you're a client of mine, an associate, if I'm volunteering for your organization, you can expect that that is how I show up. And so your personal brand is most important, because everybody has a brand. Whether you formalize it or not, people realize what you're consistently doing, and if you do your own personal brand, you're accountable to yourself. So that's the first part. The next, many, many things are a bit of that.
Speaker 2:Getting to do a TED Talk is a huge honor. Getting to ask twice is incredible, and I got to also be the emcee for one, which was also really an unusual experience. And I do so much work presenting powerfully. All of our coaches and speakers do a lot of work with public speaking and presentation skills and so that plays into it. But that was so much fun and so many people dislike public speaking. I mean comedians have joked about it for years. It's the number one fear of Americans, and Jerry Seinfeld said if you were doing the eulogy at someone's funeral, you'd rather be in the box than standing next to the box.
Speaker 2:So there's all of this about the brand presenting powerfully, because we believe how you present is how you are remembered. So I'm a golfer. I have golf since I was four, started playing competitively since I was six, traveled outside of the United States to compete when I was 11. And my husband and I usually play golf every week. For who mows the lawn? And we'll talk a little bit about that later.
Speaker 2:So all of that in there, fully recovered perfectionist is because people who say they're perfectionists, you know that's their choice, I'm not knocking it. They tend, though, to live in two states, really, todd, and for all your listeners, satisfied which they can't see me, but my hands up here, like this level of okay, I'm satisfied it went how I wanted, or unhappy and dissatisfied and frustrated, which is the majority of where they are, because so much is not going to play out precisely how you planned or wanted it. And so, getting through that in my younger adulthood and in the maturization of realizing that I was difficult to be around because I wanted things to be perfect, so that was a that was a hard realization and yet a journey that has not ever ended and hopefully never will.
Speaker 2:So fully recovered perfectionist is. It doesn't mean I give myself excuses to make errors. It means I realize everybody's human and it's a lot more fun in this life.
Speaker 1:So talk about your company, what you do, and then how did that come about?
Speaker 2:Sure. So Presenting Powerfully is about to be 19 years old and it stemmed out of I worked for General Motors for years, loved it. I also trained a world-renowned training company, became their instructor of the year for 11 of those 14 years that I was at GM. So that combination of the business acumen and the people side, I thought somewhere in my life after retirement I would use it. I didn't realize I would retire at 33. Somewhere in my life after retirement I would use it. I didn't realize I would retire at 33. I met my husband blind date, good match, and didn't think that he would not want to move all over the country like I had. And yet he's younger than I am and he went through school back to back. So our corporate lives were at different places and he's like well, if that's what you want, we'll live separately, we'll make it work. And I thought that's not what we want in our marriage. So, to his credit, he said you'd be great at this.
Speaker 2:And I said I want to do it, but I don't know if somebody's going to listen to me at that age. And he said do it, it'll be great. So, instead of quitting, I did a retirement, and that was an unusual experience. That really it's giving up the title, giving up everything to move forward, and I loved the people I worked with, because people will hear that and they'll say, oh, you didn't like the rat race. I loved it and I love what I do now.
Speaker 2:And so now we have coaches and speakers who work primarily in the United States, and we work on communication, behaviors and relationships number one. Number two, leading and leadership. Number three is emotional intelligence and kindness, and the fourth one is where I do a lot of the work Others do too, though. It's the whole dynamic of relationships and even family dynamics. So, working with dealers and working in organizations that have family members, there's a lot of communication and personality challenges and opportunities. So those are the four areas we work in and we deliver keynotes and talks, strategy and facilitation, teaming and training, and then we do coaching and consulting so where, where do you think we are with human communication now?
Speaker 1:you know, you hear all over about how you know younger generational people in younger generations have difficulty communicating because they were so brought up with texting. And do you feel like we as human beings are losing that ability to connect with each other?
Speaker 2:So I get asked that question a lot. I don't know that we're losing our ability to do it. We may be losing our interest, which is more concerning to me, because words aren't communication and it doesn't take a lot of words, it doesn't. You don't have to be verbose to get a message across. So we focus a lot on how words impact people, because if we're not interested in connecting like you and I both said, we'd love to be in person and that was exciting For some people that's intimidating and we do want to respect and meet people where they are. So it's an interesting dynamic.
Speaker 2:When you look at the five generations in the workforce, we're, with our pre-baby boomers, the greatest generation, silent generation. There's only about 2% now and that's a little bit sad. But it also changes our dynamic where our largest workforce and I know you know all of this they're the millennials. But our millennials are split. Older and younger millennials have very different communication styles too. And then we go into Gen Z and it's so encouraging because, to your point of people complaining or being concerned that there's too much texting and technology, they're seeing that picking up the phone or going and meeting with somebody has value. Now they're using it in work more than personal. So it's a long answer to I believe there's hope and if we can stay interested and stay open-minded that people communicate differently, we're not gonna lose it.
Speaker 1:It's cyclical, isn't it?
Speaker 2:It is.
Speaker 1:It seems like there's so many things in life that I've noticed are like a pendulum right, we swing in one direction and then we have to recalibrate, but instead of stopping in the middle, we keep going to the other end, right, yes, and it's been like that kind of with communication as well. It's interesting you talked about the generations that are currently in the workforce, but you skipped over gen x. It seems like gen x always gets skipped over, just kind of as a joke, because you know that, but I I would say we're probably both in that, in that group, right we're both in gen x and they.
Speaker 2:It's the smallest generation, it's the latchkey kids we tend to have. If we don't process through that, like I did, and again consistently learning, there's that sense of being neglected. There's that sense of if I'm here longer, I should get recognized. That's not the dynamic of the American workforce though now, or the work culture. The work culture is get the job done and do it well, and if you can do it faster and you still get it done, then go take care of other things. And so Gen X. Some people in Gen X have gotten frustrated and even lost in the fact that if I put in my time, I should get rewarded. But I like to remind people it's a performance test, not an endurance test. So the generations have changed and they'll continue to change. There's never been a generation that didn't think the next generation was going to ruin the world anyway.
Speaker 1:And here we are, we're okay. Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. So talk about. Tell me about your TED talks. How did you get invited to that and what's that process like?
Speaker 2:Well, it was a wonderful invitation and being asked to talk first, I was. It was open, they're open to anything and Beth Sikoski was took on TEDx West Shore, which was terrific, and she's a really spectacular human being who has a great sense of humor, a wonderful sense of grounding and knows about everything you can about compliance. So she is very complex and yet really appreciates the human spirit. So when she invited me, there was no way I wasn't going to say yes. What you probably don't even know, even though we talked a little bit before, is the timing on the TED Talk was six weeks after the kidney donation was six weeks after the kidney donation.
Speaker 1:Oh right.
Speaker 2:And so there was the pandemic. We were still having it and I was still not quite myself. So that first one I was very excited about and I've coached people and I've gotten to do it and even I remember playing in my headset constantly the talk, because you don't use any notes, it's supposed to be a one take, which is what I did. So this was a room a little bit bigger than what we're in and for the listeners it's not a big room.
Speaker 2:It's lovely, it's just not huge like you think of. And I asked if my husband could come, so he's in a mask. I took my mask off, didn't even get to look in a mirror, delivered it to the camera and left. That was about care leaders who care C-A-R-E. I do a lot with acrostics. Now engineers can't stand it, so with my engineering firms I just make it one, two, three, four. The C is communication, the A is appreciation, the R is reciprocation and the E is expectations. So if we communicate, appreciate and reciprocate, we can come together in expectation and that is a very good way to lead. But we don't get to do expectations without the others and not have people feel very disconnected. So that was the first one. You know, mask off, speak, mask back on. I mean hobble a little bit, because I wasn't as mobile, although I was. I mean I was running at that time but very, very slowly.
Speaker 2:So the next one, when I was invited, I did be the kind of leader, k-i-n-d leader worth following and I got to even bring in the fact about the I do. The K is know, like Socrates said at first, and best know thyself If you don't know yourself. There's a bit of that imposter syndrome or phoniness, and so I work through that the I's include others sincerely. There's a lot of insincerity out there and it's okay. If you don't want somebody to come, don't invite them and complain. They're there. And then the N is nudge past nice.
Speaker 2:You and I were probably, and many of your listeners were brought up if you have nothing nice to say, say nothing. I say if you have nothing kind to say, do something kind to get yourself in that mood. You know, it's not about niceties, it's about true connection. And the D is do something bigger than yourself. And that's when I got to talk about that kidney donation and Michael got to be there in the big room with all the cameras and all the people and you know, seeing people's eyes light up about being kind to themselves first was a joy.
Speaker 2:So that led to a lot more engagement on kindness and I didn't realize there was a kindness industry. It feels a little bit of a strange combination, maybe a strange juxtaposition, to have kindness and the word industry. But I met so many of those people through Lee Clark inviting me to do the Living Kindly book that you and I were talking about before we were on air, and how incredible that she thought of that collaboration and was kind enough to include me. So I've really been invited to all of these things and, like I said, beth is just terrific and Lee bringing us together, that having a voice for kindness led me to know Francesca Dolan, who she's doing every day of kindness this year, and she's a professor at Florida Gulf Coast and does a whole class on it, and so it's fascinating that when you really get involved in something, you meet so many other people who you can learn from.
Speaker 1:You mentioned a kindness industry and it seems a little weird, and so I've gone through travel baseball with my son he's in his 20s now. He's in the Army. He's gone and then travel softball with my daughter and now going through travel volleyball with my youngest daughter.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, she's athletic.
Speaker 1:Oh, I know, and that's why I'll probably be working until I'm 90 years old to pay for all of it. But what I, you know, I call it my old man thoughts. But I'm like you know, when I was a kid and I played baseball, we wore jeans, we had a T-shirt that was sponsored by the plumber down the street and we all brought a wooden bat, or there were three wooden bats for the whole team to use, and that was it right. Yes, and now there's such an industry built around. You know baseball for youth and softball, and name the sport right um gymnastics. You know volleyball, the volleyball tournament we were at this weekend.
Speaker 1:We were on court 52 of 58 courts split between two areas in Tampa here and people came there were, you know, there were Winnebago's out back, people drove from Georgia and other States. So you know it's a big thing, it's a big industry. But I think, you know, when I think about it and the old man in my head goes ah, we didn't used to do it that way, I think. But you know what? There was a need right At some point someone saw a need in youth sports to make it bigger. You know, now my 11 year old daughter has media day with her team.
Speaker 1:So they spend a whole evening getting pictures to and, and you know I'm like, really do we have to do all this, but think about how special it makes them feel. Think about, you know, the, the, the lessons that they learn and the bonding with their teammates. So it's a good thing. But going back to the kindness industry, there's an industry because there's a need, right and, and that you know, god bless America because we're able to develop an industry around something where there's a need. So that's great, that that has evolved and is hopefully helping people to learn how to be kinder and have kindness in their lives. Talk about the book. It's called Kindly Living. It's essays collected by Lee Clark and yours is one of them in there.
Speaker 2:Talk about that, yes, yes, Thank you. Well, first thank you to your son and for your family for his service. That's wonderful. I mean, that is part of how we all get to be here doing what we're doing, so that's much appreciated. So the Living Kindly Collection Lee Clark started years ago with Do Pay Away, Lay Away. I believe it was called and forgive me, Lee, if you're listening and I say it slightly off so I heard about her. She was on the Today Show. We ended up meeting years later on the same speaking stage where we were at different times, and then she invited me again to be part of the collection. I'm typically a yes person, so when she asked, I said yes. So the collection there's many Europeans in there and that's where I learned about the industry. Like you said that, I believe it's stronger in other parts of the world.
Speaker 2:And hopefully we're picking up on that, which is terrific. So I asked her if I could write about the share your spare idea of sharing a kidney and she said yes, and Corey Wamsley is the person who is the editor and publisher and she's really terrific at what she does too so that she could pick what order to put them in. But there was no expectation of continuity other than trusting Corey and Lee, and when you read it, it's really fascinating to think about somebody who's had an abusive situation or a drug addiction or an organ donation or a struggle at work in how at the core of moving through is kindness, and so that's really what the collection of essays is all about. And I got to meet those people via Zoom, as you were saying earlier, and yet I've stayed connected with some of them and certainly wish them all well, but that expanded the opportunity. When I read their posts and their blogs and their vlogs and their things that it's like, oh, that's another way to think about kindness.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, it was a really special experience and it also allowed us to be bestselling authors, and that's one of those. I don't put that on there, lee, though I know she's really proud of that, that it's part of what she's doing with other topics is allowing people to have a voice to be heard and get that recognition, so to speak. And so that's being kind to yourself to say some of the people will not do other books. I happen to have other books and yet it was fun to see everybody get excited about one collection.
Speaker 1:So why did you donate your kidney?
Speaker 2:Because I could and that's a strange people say that's a weird answer, it really I don't have a better answer. Nor do I apologize for the answer, because I have been an organ donor on my license, which is through Donate Life. Wherever I lived throughout the United States, I registered for it. My husband and I became bone marrow, were on the registry for that because there was a need in the family and we weren't matches, and so I heard about this.
Speaker 2:I started before the pandemic and then the pandemic came and they asked me if I wanted to continue at Tampa General Hospital because they said this is you know, we don't know how long this will take, we don't know all of this. And I said sure. And they said will you donate to anyone? Because I'd heard about somebody who needed the kidney, who I wasn't friends with or anything, and I said, oh, I didn't really know how that worked. I thought you'd just draw my blood and tell me if I could do it or not. And they said, oh, no, no, this is far, far bigger. It's bigger than that.
Speaker 2:It's bigger than that, and so I chose to go through it. And I remember I was on Henderson Boulevard in Tampa. I called my husband. I said I can't explain it. I believe I'm going to be a kidney donor. I believe I'm going to be.
Speaker 2:And he said whenever you say it sounds crazy, she's, she's and, forgive me, I think she's in charge of everybody in the blood draws hematology. And she said to me I remember when I was leaving I said, okay, thanks, you know, take care, she goes. I hope to see you again. And I remember thinking people say it all the time she really meant it because she knew that if she saw me again, that meant somebody she'd been seeing for years was going to get a kidney. And it really struck me how important her sincerity and, like her, love for her job or her work or whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 2:And they were all consistently kind to me when I went in there whatever you want to call it. And they were consistently kind to me when I went in there. And it was awkward as heck because you're six feet away from people and those are people who are really ill, so I was just not wanting to get near anybody because you could tell, mostly because of the strain on people, and so it was a very unexpected experience and at the same time planned because of the peculiarity of the timing and my husband knew from the start and then I wasn't going to tell anybody because I said it's not my story to tell it's the person who receives this kidney. That was apparently never really mine.
Speaker 2:I just housed it for a bit and then I got the paperwork and Todd you have to have two people who say they will take care of you after, okay, and if anything goes wrong and it's a little daunting, yeah. So my running partner at the time, lynn. We were doing 10,000 steps before sunrise, and so I chose to tell her and then drop it on her that I'm asking her to sign that she'll take care of me Right.
Speaker 2:And so it was an interesting secret, so to speak. And then we met before I asked if we could meet a half an hour before We'd had a Zoom with the woman who received the kidney and we'd been in two groups together before that's how I'd heard about it, but never more than a hello. She's a baby boomer, I'm Gen X, she's a foodie, I'm an athlete. She's got this beautiful, perfect little dog and we have rescue labs and they're like all over the place, and it was a lesson. And then I get to share this in some medical clients and facilities that you know, you never know the connection, even though it may not go beyond that, and there's only two people who are really happy to go into a hospital. They're delivering healthy babies or they're donating kidneys, and the rest of the people are really not in their best place.
Speaker 2:And so if we would remember that in our lives, like that guy might pull out in front of me, he may have had a really bad day at work and I didn't. So it's not to say I don't ever get upset. It's a really interesting perspective, though, of somebody's like. That apparition is going to change the entire dynamic. And then, when my husband donated six months later, the man who received the kidney in that situation he has five children and his wife they hadn't left Tampa Bay in, I think, five years. He would work 10 to 3, then go to dialysis from four to eight, then go home, go to bed and he did that for those five years Now, since they have gone on something like 21 trips.
Speaker 2:I mean it's fascinating and I love sharing Michael's story of it because it's such an. It was just so unusual and to see their whole family. It doesn't just affect one person, it's like donate blood, get on the anything anybody does. It doesn't only donate or impact, excuse me, that person. Kindness doesn't only impact one person because it does have a ripple effect.
Speaker 1:So so what's amazing to me and I think sometimes people are skeptical about other people trying to help them, and I don't want to use the word self-help because I don't like that term. I don't know if you do, I can't imagine you do, but it's not my favorite. But in what you do, I know that there have been others that have not necessarily lived what it is. They don't practice what they preach. I know you do because you recently experienced quite a significant impact in your life. We've mentioned a couple of times we're in Tampa and we were affected by two hurricanes back to back. Yes, some people were affected more than others in this area, but you all were affected pretty severely with the first one that came through. Can you tell your story with?
Speaker 2:that? Sure we were, and it was. You know, we live in a place that we loved and it wasn't a large home, it was a 1956 home and where we are there had not been a storm there, there had not been water ever in it. There, you know, there's. We're close to water. So, to set the stage, so we'd evacuated many times and this time we chose not to because we realized that the last time we had a storm some water came up. But we said, oh, we're going to do this plastic around and protect ourselves. And then we had a game plan If anything were to happen worse, we'd go across to our neighbors. And you know we had a plan.
Speaker 2:So we really were not expecting it, as you know, and most people weren't, and it was supposed to come in the middle of the night and by 8.30, 9 o'clock there was a tiny bit of water, not just in one room but in our house. I mean, it happened at a different time than we expected and very quickly, and within 45 minutes it was up to my calf, and I mentioned our rescue lab, daisy, and so we're putting her up, but she's not normally supposed to be up on any furniture, so she would attempt to jump down. We're attempting to grab some things. Yeah, she's a joy, we call her joy wrapped in fur. Then what happened is it was coming so fast that we were quickly deciding do we go out on the bar, do we? Well, we better go across to jim and kimberly's, which is what we chose to do now. We did that protection so well of the plastic that it was up like a foot.
Speaker 2:So when Jim came across, we couldn't get the door open. And we're at Bay to Bay and so there's a park in the very middle and we never, ever realized in the 20 years we lived there that it really dips down. So I remember looking out the window and Jim was wet, but I thought, well, it's raining, and I had grabbed a bag and Michael had daisy, but we couldn't get the door open. We finally got the door open and he said you can't take that. And I said to Michael there's a lot of water is going to come in when you open the door.
Speaker 2:And he said can you swim? And I said what? And he said can you swim? I said yeah, I've done triathlon and I can swim, but what do you mean? Like we're not going in the pool? And he said Debbie, at the this, fast across the street in the middle. He said it's, it's up to, I think, his neck and I'm five foot two. So so then we realized we couldn't. He goes you can't take that bag, you can't take anything. So it was literally just what we were wearing and for some reason I took my shoes off.
Speaker 2:I still wonder about that I took my shoes off and put them up.
Speaker 1:They do that in movies you know right, like when they jump in the water to save somebody, they always take their shoes off.
Speaker 2:Take their shoes off. I'll pay attention to that. So as we got out there, thank goodness, michael realized that the water wasn't clean water. I mean, you know, you're just not. So he held Daisy up over his head and I said you guys go ahead. And then I had to swim at one point because it was over my head and I mean I never expected that. At the same time, it wasn't anything we'd done wrong or unexpected. And so it was this realization that the flooding was real.
Speaker 2:And then I'm a realistic optimist or an optimistic realist, and I said to Michael this is going to be one of the biggest things we ever go through, if not the biggest in our lives. We want to assure that. It's going to be frustrating, it's going to be all these things. We've got to decide, if we're in, what we want to do, because most families aren't going to have this conversation. And I remember and Michael won't mind my saying this, but I remember his lip quivering and seeing his face and he's like what are you saying? And I said I'm not saying I want out or you want out, but if you ever think there's a time you don't want to move forward, we will make or break at this point because we are team Lundberg, but this is something we never expected. And so we had that conversation about you know what's going to happen. I mean, we're thinking we'll be able to fix it. So we're thinking that way and knowing that would be very taxing and I made a post.
Speaker 2:I chose to make a post on that Friday, which was September 28th, and said you know, the house has had, there's a 12-foot storm surge. It settled around four feet. We don't know that we can save anything, but if anybody's in the area, if you can come, 30 people showed up. And the next day I made a post about bringing boxes because things that were up on the wall in our clothes. So 12 families took our clothes and washed them, which saved them from that salt water. And then I realized that the paper boxes were getting. It was so damp.
Speaker 2:So, then I asked for clear bins and people were sending Ubers with bins and showing up. We had 50 people there from one social media post on Sunday by 2 pm, our entire home again not a large home out at the street and we were waiting for the inspector to come from FEMA. And I said to my husband you know what we just experienced? And he said what I said active love. I said this is not people saying let me know what I can do. People couldn't get across the bridges so they had delivery services send us stuff. People showed up who'd only ever heard me speak once and follow and it was incredibly touching and so that loss I would not wish on anyone and I know there are a lot of people who've experienced it it also by people doing so much.
Speaker 2:We were able to donate clothes because we had a lot of clothes and and they were able people washed my running shoes and I mean they just took everything and brought it back. And so we're in an apartment and you know we're not able to repair our home. It has to be torn down, which means trees. You know a hundred and some year old oak trees have to go. But we have those memories and I have this group that we call the Awesomeness Squad, and they just rallied and even some of them showed up and I said, if you have other friends, even though I love you and it's great, go to them, because we have so much support. And I'll tell you, some days it's weird that we're living the lives we're living, but not every, not any day do we are not grateful for it.
Speaker 2:So when you have that loss, you can feel very, very much a lack in a sense of. I said sometimes it must be what perhaps homeless people like you see people with a cart and people say what are they doing with all that stuff? And I'll say that's what they have, though Like don't judge what they have, because those are their things. And I remember thinking, gosh, you know, I want to give away this stuff because I don't want to have that sense and and you know it'll be, there'll be. We call our home the Lumisphere. So now we're in what we call Lumisphere light, right, right, and then we'll have Lumisphere 2.0. But it'll take a while.
Speaker 2:You know, we wouldn't have changed anything about our home, and now it has to be a completely different home.
Speaker 2:We still get to take the memories, and I think if, in that position, when somebody has that like I go places now and every once in a while I'm very social, as you can probably tell and you might remember from before people will ask things and I don't want to answer them, and yet it's that reminder.
Speaker 2:They haven't been having this conversation for 144 days like I have. They want to know right now, and they mean well, and sometimes it's that generosity of grace that takes a lot of emotional intelligence, and in not being perfect, do I snap every once in a while? Sure, I also have the ability, though, to go to them and say please forgive my shortness, because you meant well, I don't over explain it, though, and I think that's part of the kindness of being kind to yourself too is there's people who have lost. I mean, you work with people getting back into work, you work with people with that loss, and so, if we can remember that, in each instance, we meet them as a human, not as the condition we're in, but as the human being that they are at the core, so do you think, because of the business and what it is that you do, is that what helped center you?
Speaker 1:I need to be reminded of everything that you just said. I get into situations and my personal personality is that I tend to go dark very quick and I have to make a conscious effort to stay positive, Whereas I think for some people make a conscious effort to stay positive, Whereas I think for some people it's natural, but sometimes that natural takes a lot of work right. So how would you explain or help someone who may be listening that might not be going through anything as severe as what you've gone through, but maybe it's the day-to-day grind that just gets them down and they're really struggling with staying positive and they hear living kindly and they go right, I mean how do you take that step and how do you maintain that level?
Speaker 2:of positivity.
Speaker 2:Well, I think people will be surprised to know mine is not natural, it's learned. I was wired very much to be competitive and very much about accomplishment. Now I still like accomplishing things. It was in undergrad when I realized. I asked my roommate a question and she said you know, nobody wants to get on your bad side. That's the reason they do things for you, and I thought what a horrible way to live my life Somewhere. I must have known, though, that it wasn't that attractive, and so I made a conscious effort to change that, and so it's work it is.
Speaker 2:You can't ever change how you're wired. We get to thank or blame our parents and grandparents and our ancestry for that, and some of our environment. We do get to change how we present. I don't believe in fake it till you make it, and sometimes people are surprised by that. I believe in make it about what you're doing and learning right now till you make it to the next step. Make it to the next step. So, to answer your question, absolutely that the way that we choose to live our lives in the work I get to do positioned me for this. It positioned me to get to the TED Talks too though.
Speaker 2:So the good and the not so good, the really fun and the not so fun, we do what's called tap and I introduced it to my husband. I've always done what I call grin and grat. Like the alarm goes off at 431 and I grin. I smile and I think of gratitude, like grin and grat. And as I'm walking, this was in the house that we had before there was this walkover because I would put my phone in the bathroom so that it was forced to get up and there was no blue light. So I said, what about doing tap with me? And he said well, what's tap?
Speaker 2:I've heard you talk about it and it's when you first, in the morning, you talk about what you're thankful for and you set up your accomplishments for the day, three or four only. So do you want to accomplish being kind to a person who's challenging, so it doesn't have to be a really measurable. So it's a little bit different, because goal setting, you want measurables and in the evening, the last thing before we go to sleep, no matter how tired or had a glass or two to drink, it's what are your positives? And there's no wrong positive in that you can tap into positivity and and mindset by ensuring that you don't let a day pass because you're right, there's work in it, and most people don't ask me like you did and they assume and that's, that's okay. They assume, well, you were born that way or that way and and I I don't know what it would be like if I had, so I don't wish for that.
Speaker 2:At the same time, going through the process of the letdowns and the frustrations and being angry before and disappointed, it's so much lighter and it's been, you know, two-thirds of my life now and I'm a work in process, as we like to say. And so when you go dark or others who are listening, or it's the grind of the day, like you asked, give yourself credit Like what have you done well today? Because you've done something really well, even if you let somebody out in front of you at a light or you held a door. I mean every act of kindness, and there's a quotation about it that I'm not going to remember exactly. So there's no act of kindness that's wasted, is in effect, and if you believe that, you continue to achieve it. I don't believe in the mindset of if you think it, you can do it and you can do anything, because nobody from the WNBA is asking me to play basketball for them, even if I really really wanted to.
Speaker 2:So I think we've also you talked about that pendulum earlier. We swing to this. You can do anything you want, and I'm over here saying you can do anything you're capable of. So if you weren't able to dance ballet, don't beat yourself up if you missed a step in the cha-cha that you're doing in the evening with your spouse, because you're there to have fun. You're not there to win a trophy or to, so it's a keep a perspective.
Speaker 1:Realistic, optimist.
Speaker 2:Realistic optimist yes.
Speaker 1:So we've been talking about not really getting into some into details, some some higher level kind of perspective things. What we really try to bring on this podcast is some specific things that people can do to help make themselves better at what they do or in their lives, because I think those things are connected. Right, I can take the things I learn and implement every single thing that I learned doing this at home, and it makes me a better dad and a better husband, no doubt about it. So you know, thinking of people in workers' compensation adjusters, risk managers most of them have very high levels of work that they have to do, managing hundreds of files at the same time, but also understanding that these files aren't just numbers.
Speaker 1:They're human beings behind every file, right, and so I came up with a couple scenarios that I was going to throw at you and kind of see how you might help that person in what they're trying to do.
Speaker 2:Love it, you game Okay.
Speaker 1:All right. So here's number one. An employer is approaching an employee about a personal issue that's been impacting their work. So how do you have that conversation? As an employer, you have to sit down with somebody that you can tell that they're slacking off. How do you have that difficult conversation?
Speaker 2:First, before you meet with them, is you check your anger and frustration, your disappointment, because you got to remember and I'm sure you do, todd that almost no one in the world says how can I do a bad job at work today, and sometimes we forget that. So, with clients or in this scenario, because I've had clients in this scenario they're like I'm so frustrated, they're not pulling their weight, and I'll say what else is pulling at them, though, and it's not to excuse the behavior. So if they said to the person I like to tell people, give purpose before your position, purpose before your position. If it were you and me, let's say Todd, and I wasn't delivering, If you said to me Debbie, you're not cutting it, you know, I don't know what's going on in your personal life, but you've got to straighten up, I wouldn't feel supported and I would feel worse, because I'm already failing at home and now I feel like I'm failing here. If, instead, you said Debbie, because I care about you, I've blocked a half an hour, an hour, whatever it is to talk to you about you as a person. Now, look, I get it. Hr different things. I'm talking you and me as two people who care about each other. Are you willing to share with me what's happening, because I'm guessing there's something that's going on outside of here that is impacting here. Now we'll get to the stuff here.
Speaker 2:Most importantly, though, are you okay, and what does okay look like to you, and then close your mouth and listen? So I like to say you want to ask, listen, confirm and honor. So if you asked me that and I said you know what? Our dog is really sick, and the person who usually watches our dog is not available to, I've had people say I can't believe it's an animal, and I'm like whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. So if you said okay, how can we assist? Could working remotely assist? Is there? Could we temporarily and tell them it's an exception? There's nothing wrong with saying it's an exception.
Speaker 2:If, though, they're really not in the end you say they're not up to speed, offer your EAP, offer what is included in their benefits. Also, though, figure out a way to have them not in that dynamic where they don't feel pushed out though, because for some people, if they're not in that work environment, the work environment may be the one thing that they thought was working. So you don't want to risk your business for this person's actions, but you never want to sacrifice a human at the results of work. So when you come to them since, first of all, it has to be sincere, secondly, it can't be rushed, third, it has to be a safe space and you tell them you care first and you mean it. Then you go through the ask, listen, confirm and honor, and you figure it out together. If they are at their wits end and they say they don't know what to do, then say I'm going to do this. So if it's, you're going to have HR get in touch with them or you're going to grant them their leave or their PTO or whatever it is, and if you don't want that, by the end of the day, send me a text or an email and I'll change it.
Speaker 2:We too often say to somebody what can I do for you? That's a to-do on their list. When we are in these challenging times and say I'm not performing well and our dog is ill, I don't know what you can do. So either tell them what you're doing or give them choices after you listen, because if I say to you, look, I'm not doing well, but I'm out of PTO, you probably have the ability to let me adjust.
Speaker 2:If, though, I think I'm doing really well, you're going to want to approach it differently. If I'll say what are you talking about? I've gotten everything done on time, then you want to show, say I can see where that could be, that could have been seen through your eyes. You don't want to ever lie, you don't want to ever miss. If I'm in an altered state, you can appreciate how I would see that, even if it's going off site, because you know they love coffee, but they, you know something, and I don't like people calling those accommodations or coddling. I call it being human, and human kindness matters. So, in those scenarios, I'd say probably more than 90 percent if I went back and looked at clients.
Speaker 1:If they're willing to do that, they resolve it, and the person either stays or the person leaves on good terms because they were cared for that's something that, in what we do on a daily basis, one of those things that I think makes an adjuster very cynical, because there's a small percentage of people in this industry, from the employee standpoint, that do take advantage of the system, and so when those couple people take advantage of it, it instantly trickles down to what we think everybody's doing Right, and that's not always the case. So let's take another scenario. It's very similar to that one. So let's take another scenario. It's very similar to that one.
Speaker 1:But so I'm an adjuster and I have a sense that maybe somebody is taking advantage of the situation because perhaps they're not doing what they're supposed to be doing to help, kind of participate in their recovery.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:So how do you have that kindness conversation and not get taken advantage of?
Speaker 2:Yeah, kindness sometimes gets perceived as a doormat, and I said call it a welcome mat, not a doormat. So we welcome the truth and honesty. I don't ever encourage anybody, though, to compromise their integrity or their sense of self for another person. Now, we can be a bit self-deprecating or we can be humble. So if that were the case and again say it's you and I'm not, I'm this person who's been injured or not participating in how to get back to work, really, then you'd probably want to say to me hey, debbie, you know, because I see a lot of things and since you've had X amount of time since your injury or since you've been out of work, walk me through what challenges you're having in getting back to work. So, again, you're going to ask first, and you notice you don't say I care about you. You say because I care about you. So everybody's favorite topic, whether they're doing the right things or not, is themselves, and so if we don't lead with I, we lead with the reason, like the because or since. Like I said, in both scenarios I'm more likely going to start to talk about the challenges. So if you say, walk me through the challenges and most Americans don't love help, they love to be served or assisted. So if you think somebody is in that situation, ultimately you're going to get to it. So I am going to get to if you really feel that. So at first, though, if you ask me what my challenges are, I say, ah, you know how it is. It's difficult. Nobody gives any interviews, so I give generalizations. You want to say tell me about the last time. Oh, it always happens. Well, tell me about something that happened this week. And then say tell me one time. So you ask three times, and if they can't give you a specific say, considering there's been nothing specific, what specifically can I do to assist you? Because you know that our relationship is based on getting you back to work? And if I say there's nothing, it's just a bad job market in Idaho, or it's a bad job market in Tampa, or whatever it is, then you do want to get to that what I call kindly direct and directly kind. So you see, I like to say these things because kindness does get a bit of a soft wrap. So if you say you know what, and if it's you and you're talking to me, you say you know what? Debbie, let's be straight. I'm getting this sense that you're not doing these things. How can you prove me wrong? Let them prove you wrong. Instead of saying I think you're not doing this, say I'm getting that sent, so please prove me wrong. What am I missing? So that's direct and kind. And then, if they don't, then you want to say to them you know what?
Speaker 2:These conversations, we can probably agree, have been pleasant. They've been somewhat productive. If we don't resolve something this time and we don't get a plan that you start working, the next conversation is going to be very different. I don't want us to have that conversation. We will have that conversation, though if it doesn't change. Are we in agreement? Okay, so now, fresh start. Let's get a plan. You got to give them a chance to have a fresh start, to not feel like it's hanging over them. If, though, they don't do it, that next conversation is to be about dissolving the relationship or how you would move forward if it's fraud or anything like that. So it's giving them the reason, giving them the opportunity, asking them their challenges, seeing if you can assist, and then being really clear. Different conversation if this doesn't happen. Plan, and, whether it gets executed or not, you know your direction.
Speaker 2:Very rarely do people say, oh, I cut that person off too quickly. We usually say I hold on too long. So if you're fair and you give them that I have a client right now. She wanted to wait a very long time with somebody not performing I said I don't think it's going to work out. I'd love for you to prove me wrong. If you give him 90 days, though, I said a president gets 100. People get 90 days on a review before anything. This person's already been here a long time. He may be missing out on a good opportunity somewhere else. So are you doing him a service by dragging it out? And it's like well, people say I hate to do it, you'll never love doing it, but like the fact that you've been sincere with another human being, and that's where that goes, todd.
Speaker 1:These things, these conversations, are so nuanced and you would think that we would be hardwired to be able to have these conversations, but we're really not. It's definitely a learned skill. It is. You'd written a article, or I guess it's an article. It was printed, so it's an article right In the. Tampa Bay Business Journal.
Speaker 2:Tampa Bay Business and Wealth Magazine. I'm sorry, Business and Wealth Magazine Very close.
Speaker 1:yeah, and it had to do with words to say and words not to say in certain circumstances and when I read through that they're so close Like we were chatting before we started recording about. My sister-in-law was at hospice and the nurses who are wonderful people continued to ask us how we were doing, and I think that was the one complaint that my father-in-law had through. That whole experience was don't ask me how I'm doing.
Speaker 1:But, it's just something that we normally just it's force of habit, right? Can you recall some of those do's and don'ts that?
Speaker 2:you had in that article, Absolutely. And Lauren Jarrett, who is an associate professor with USF, partnered with me on that and she also. She and her family lost their home and about 90% of their belongings and she publicly states you know, we're friends and she's been a client and over the years we've shared stories. With this, though, Like you said, I mean you're going in to see someone in hospice, so don't say how are you? Just like a doctor's office. Please don't say how are you? Because you're about to check the blood pressure and people have white coat syndrome, so say glad you're here, so good to see you, those type of things, when people would ask Lauren or me, and still to this day, how are you? Well, I'm doing day 144. I made a little progress today.
Speaker 2:And so instead of saying let me know what I can do, it's so much better to say I'm sending you an Amazon gift card to this email address. If it's different, let me know. Otherwise you'll see it by 6 o'clock. Because if you say let me know, I mean I can take you back to the kidney donation I had. People say to me you never told me I could do something, so I never got to be part of it. It's like well, forgive me for having my intestines moved around and organ taken out and attempting to recover from it and forgetting to send you a message on what you could do. And you can hear a bit of sarcasm in my voice because when people said that, I said you know what, thanks for the offer. It all worked out. Because there's no point in saying to them oh my gosh, you're giving me a to-do. People say, thinking of you, let me know what we can do, and what is really best is to figure out what you're good at. So this is a funny story. So a client and friend ended up getting a surgery and I did what I normally do. I said saw that hope you're doing all right If you're able to, with what you're going through, eat chili Michael makes great chili or I'll drop a bag off at your place on Tuesday and I'll pick it up on Thursday. If there's any laundry or anything. If you leave it empty and you never touch it, you don't have to see me. So those are things that I said. If I don't hear back from you, I'll drop off the bag.
Speaker 2:So this person had nothing to do and he said I want the chili. So I said to michael oh, he wants the chili. And michael said you know, we don't have a crock pot. So I was like oh, so we borrowed a crock pot from from the one of our awesomeness squad don, and then he does his chili, and so we're we normally drop it off. And this person said could you stay and have dinner with me? And so so we said, oh okay, we've never done that. We make a chili for people, we, michael.
Speaker 1:I offer, he makes.
Speaker 2:So we go to take it. And right before Michael puts these sweet tomatoes in that are in a can, and he said we don't have a can opener. So we were laughing and so I called the person. I said we'll be here at this time if you have a can opener, and we'll be here at this time if you don't, because we'll be stopping to buy a can opener. And he said well, I have a can opener. And it was such a laugh because we naturally do that. And yet we didn't have the stuff. It worked. And so you know, we figured it out, and my point of that is I was a little flaky on my part and we figured it out. And my point of that is I was a little flaky on my part, and yet it worked. And we have a can opener now and a crock pot.
Speaker 2:So figure out what you're capable of doing and don't overextend, because mine was like well, we figured it out, I just asked somebody to borrow one and then do it. I mean, it really is that simple. But also, when you say to somebody oh, that must be terrible, or I can't imagine what you were going through, or I'd be curled up in a ball in a corner. There's nothing good that comes out of that. People also say you know well, god wouldn't give you more than you can handle. That's really out of context because it's not the whole intention. If you read through that, whether you're religious or not, and so when people say those things they probably mean well, but when you're thinking really I don't even have my own toothbrush, but our dentist got us toothbrushes I mean, you think it's more of that.
Speaker 2:If you really don't know what to say, it's better to say something to somebody because I don't know what to say. It's better to say something to somebody because I don't know what to say to you. Is it okay if I give you a hug and if they say no, then don't be mad, don't force a hug. Or if you say because I don't know anything, the right thing to say I'm just here and I'm thinking of you is so much better than asking a question when we've been part of a lot of activity at MacDill and somebody's writing a book about the coalition. I was on with him when I was heading here and he started asking me questions about another area in Tampa because he's not here anymore and I said I don't know, because the devastation that happened by us. We don't even live right there right now and I know he was curious, but I didn't have the answer and I wasn't going to attempt to figure it out, because you also have to be kind to yourself and be all right saying thanks for asking.
Speaker 2:I'm going over here now I say that a lot People start to ask. So in those do's and don'ts that Lauren and I shared, it's think about what you're really saying. People say your place will be better. You'll build a bigger, better. Nope, didn't want a bigger house, didn't want better, didn't want a bazillion dollar, but it's a building. We don't want this huge mortgage.
Speaker 2:As a Gen X, you know, and and so in everything we say, it doesn't, it's not going to be flawless. At the same time, if you're, if you have nothing nice to say, as we talked about earlier, you don't say anything nice. If you have nothing kind, figure out something kind to do. I mean actions speak louder than words.
Speaker 1:So, debbie, if people are interested in getting a hold of you now, you work with individuals and organizations, right? So what's the best way to get a hold of you, and where can they find your TED Talks and all that other fun stuff?
Speaker 2:Thanks for asking. Everything's at debbie D-E-B-B-I-E. At debbielundbergcom you can find our coaches, our speakers, me. They're all equally as good as I am better in some topics, so I mean they have their expertise. The TED Talks are on the TED channel. Tedx on YouTube. So and really, ted channel, tedx on YouTube. So and really, I make everything public on Facebook, that platform, because people can access it. If you don't mind seeing Rescue Labs and Michael and me golfing every once in a while, I do a video tip every day. That's all around kindness, communication, behaviors, so we welcome anybody who wants to join along. And then Barb Zant is my podcast partner and Deb's been on the show. We might get you on there, todd. That would be great.
Speaker 2:So it's called the Business of Life Masterclass Podcast. So we ask the same questions of every guest and then we implement them and report back on what we did.
Speaker 1:Love it, so we'd love to have you there and we're nearing 250 episodes. Congratulations, thank you and thanks for having me on here again.
Speaker 2:Of course, debbie, thank you very much you're welcome, all right, we'll have you on again that sounds good, thank you thanks for listening to rea audio.
Speaker 1:I hope we opened up your brain a bit and helped you be better at what you do. Please follow us on spotify, apple podcast, stitcher Music or wherever you get your podcasts. If you have input or suggestions, email Todd at reemployabilitycom. Be grateful and have a fantastic rest of your week.
.png)